tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3694481997928271849.post7478878154332737747..comments2022-09-01T03:36:46.932-07:00Comments on Plot Kills Brain Sells: Counterfactual speculationsThe other Olgahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17934732152977540738noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3694481997928271849.post-91033762865133615122010-03-25T18:24:12.210-07:002010-03-25T18:24:12.210-07:00Evelyn, done :) see what you think now.. very curi...Evelyn, done :) see what you think now.. very curious!The other Olgahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17934732152977540738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3694481997928271849.post-62577783687267648792010-03-25T11:55:40.408-07:002010-03-25T11:55:40.408-07:00if you do translate it-- that would be interesting...if you do translate it-- that would be interesting. I was wondering when I read the first half if the poet was subverting traditional gender roles, he can't perform the rescue unless the lady lets him...etc. But hard to tell without looking at the poem.Evelyn Walshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3694481997928271849.post-22840065560390940092010-03-23T11:38:58.904-07:002010-03-23T11:38:58.904-07:00Yeah -- those guys are everyone's childhood fa...Yeah -- those guys are everyone's childhood favorites -- I probably still consider Kaverin my favorite author :))The other Olgahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17934732152977540738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3694481997928271849.post-54411608945237027652010-03-23T11:31:26.931-07:002010-03-23T11:31:26.931-07:00Thanks for the recommendations, Olga. I actually l...Thanks for the recommendations, Olga. I actually love both Kataev and Kaverin, so now I'm really looking forward to trying some of the other authors you mentioned.Anastasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05385287048362082104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3694481997928271849.post-68098408229461197632010-03-22T16:27:56.646-07:002010-03-22T16:27:56.646-07:00Wow, exciting to receive such thoughtful comments ...Wow, exciting to receive such thoughtful comments to this post! Thank you, Anastasia!<br /><br />Your point is very well-taken: the word "робея" does show specifically that the speaker is aware of his own weakness -- although I would hesitate to infer from this his unhappiness at making the request. In fact, I would point out that the poem is written in the imperative mood, and even though the speaker uses the word "please," his request is still a command.<br /><br />I think we're tempted to describe his request as "absurd" today -- because it certainly is absurd, but I don't see evidence that the speaker sees his request as absurd in the poem. I think he's making a demand, and even though he does so "timidly" -- this "timidity" is merely an acknowledgment of his stated position, that he's weaker than her. He does not see himself as trapped here. I think he thinks it's a situation that needs to be corrected.<br /><br />At the very least, he feels justified in making this request and phrasing it throughout as a demand in the imperative.<br /><br />If you've read the discussion on the feminist blog (to which I linked) you saw that most participants in the community interpreted the poem very similarly to the way I did, even though my opponent didn't frame the discussion in a very favorable way :))) <br /><br />Soviet lit of the 1960s (I'm not talking about dissident literature here, although in its approach to female characters dissident lit is not all that different from socialist realist ficiton) is a deep field -- and not very well studied these days (it's kind of scary). A few top names are Simonov, Tvardovsky, Fedin, Fadeev (although I think he wrote his made fiction works a bit earlier), Bondarev, Astafjev, Shushkin, Iskander, German, Kaverin, Kataev -- etc. There were several different groups and directions..The other Olgahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17934732152977540738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3694481997928271849.post-71839815515688583302010-03-22T13:05:42.905-07:002010-03-22T13:05:42.905-07:00Olga, I'm so glad I found your blog. Your thou...Olga, I'm so glad I found your blog. Your thoughts on this poem and the discussion you linked to are quite thought-provocative. (Who knew there were feminist blogs in the .ru zone?)<br /><br />I do however wonder if there is a crucial and vital difference between observing the patriarchy and perpetuating it. As you note, the poem references the patriarchal myth of the male hero who rescues (and thereby wins) a damsel in distress. So the fact that this speaker's lover is never in need of any rescuing poses a conundrum for him: how can he correspond to the received ideas about the proper way to be a man when the woman in his life so clearly defies the helpless female stereotype? The request he's making of his lover--that she become weaker because, in contrast to him, she can--is absurd. The speaker knows that posing the question is a weakness--he makes his request "робея" / "timidly." As you say, his voice throughout is filled with pathos, so we can infer that this man is unhappy about his own request. Yet he doesn't know how else to grow, how to start believing in himself and become "особенным." The patriarchal paradigm does not accommodate his particular experience, and as a result he's trapped. Thus, in my view, instead of perpetuating patriarchal norms, the poem demonstrates their limitations. <br /><br />In your comment, you mention images of strong women in late Soviet literature. I must confess I'm largely ignorant of Russian language fiction from this period and I wish I weren't. Any recommendations?Anastasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05385287048362082104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3694481997928271849.post-40271444446607742722010-03-21T14:14:04.580-07:002010-03-21T14:14:04.580-07:00James, the ironic interpretation is tempting, but ...James, the ironic interpretation is tempting, but this poem doesn't invite it textually -- the voice of the speaker is not only earnest but also rises to pathos. More importantly, the ironic interpretation doesn't change the fact that the male weakness is framed (textually) as something negative and a problem to be solved (preferably by women).<br /><br />This poem also harks back to Russian 19th C classic, Nekrasov, who wrote admiringly about a woman "who can stop a galloping horse in its tracks" -- Rozhdestvensky's poem very neatly fits into the late Soviet reaction to the early Soviet glorification of the strong woman. The 1960s and 1970s in Russian lit are filled with images of strong women who are too strong for their own good (and thus fail in their "biological duty" -- marriage and family). <br /><br />If you're interested in discussing this further, I should probably translate the poem in its entirety :))The other Olgahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17934732152977540738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3694481997928271849.post-71026436607708364552010-03-21T12:22:47.711-07:002010-03-21T12:22:47.711-07:00Going solely on the information supplied in your b...Going solely on the information supplied in your blog post, I find it hard to swallow your interpretation of the poem as unambiguously reinforcing patriarchal stereotypes. To do that I’d have to accept that the poet is completely insensitive to the inherent irony that, by imploring a woman to be weaker, a man reveals his own weakness! Unless my understanding of Soviet sexual politics is completely off, surely some of the irony here must be deliberate on the poet’s part?James Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17012957953763587243noreply@blogger.com